Don't you love the Latin language? Above is the title of a blog! Ah, Latin soothes my soul.
The blog is some Anglo-Catholic striving for Rome. But let's help him find his dictionary, eh?
Monday, October 30, 2006
Unitarian evangelism?
The Unitarians are doing evangelism.
My question : Why? I mean if there is no difference in religions, if all are acceptable paths, if for all practical purposes God does not exist why proselytize?
I suppose eveyone wants to be successful, to grow in numbers, to have more dollars to spend.
Even Unitarians.
My question : Why? I mean if there is no difference in religions, if all are acceptable paths, if for all practical purposes God does not exist why proselytize?
I suppose eveyone wants to be successful, to grow in numbers, to have more dollars to spend.
Even Unitarians.
Sunday, October 29, 2006
Advice for preachers: ignore the praise
I think Chrysostom is right: preachers must ignore the praise or lack of praise but it is almost impossible.
Thus then must the Priest behave towards those in his charge, as a father would behave to his very young children; and as such are not disturbed either by their insults or their blows, or their lamentations, nor even if they laugh and rejoice with us, do we take much account of it; so should we neither be puffed up by the promises of these persons nor cast down at their censure, when it comes from them unseasonably.
But this is hard, my good friend; and perhaps, methinks, even impossible. For I know not whether any man ever succeeded in the effort not to be pleased when he is praised, and the man who is pleased at this is likely also to desire to enjoy it, and the man who desires to enjoy it will, of necessity, be altogether vexed and beside himself whenever he misses it.
For as they who revel in being rich, when they fall into poverty are grieved, and they who have been used to live luxuriously cannot bear to live shabbily; so, too, they who long for applause, not only when they are blamed without a cause, but when they are not constantly being praised, become, as by some famine, wasted in soul, particularly when they happen themselves to have been used to praise, or if they hear others being praised.
He who enters upon the trial of preaching with desires of this kind, how many annoyances and how many pangs dost thou think that he has? It is no more possible for the sea to be without waves than that man to be without cares and grief.
Chrysostom, On the Priesthood Book V
Thus then must the Priest behave towards those in his charge, as a father would behave to his very young children; and as such are not disturbed either by their insults or their blows, or their lamentations, nor even if they laugh and rejoice with us, do we take much account of it; so should we neither be puffed up by the promises of these persons nor cast down at their censure, when it comes from them unseasonably.
But this is hard, my good friend; and perhaps, methinks, even impossible. For I know not whether any man ever succeeded in the effort not to be pleased when he is praised, and the man who is pleased at this is likely also to desire to enjoy it, and the man who desires to enjoy it will, of necessity, be altogether vexed and beside himself whenever he misses it.
For as they who revel in being rich, when they fall into poverty are grieved, and they who have been used to live luxuriously cannot bear to live shabbily; so, too, they who long for applause, not only when they are blamed without a cause, but when they are not constantly being praised, become, as by some famine, wasted in soul, particularly when they happen themselves to have been used to praise, or if they hear others being praised.
He who enters upon the trial of preaching with desires of this kind, how many annoyances and how many pangs dost thou think that he has? It is no more possible for the sea to be without waves than that man to be without cares and grief.
Chrysostom, On the Priesthood Book V
Wwhat love of God to man!
For when thou seest the Lord sacrificed, and laid upon the altar, and the priest standing and praying over the victim, and all the worshippers empurpled with that precious blood, canst thou then think that thou art still amongst men, and standing upon the earth?
Art thou not, on the contrary, straightway translated to Heaven, and casting out every carnal thought from the soul, dost thou not with disembodied spirit and pure reason contemplate the things which are in Heaven?
Oh! what a marvel! What loveof God to man! He who sitteth on high with the Father is at that hour held in the hands of all, and gives Himself to those who are willing to embrace and grasp Him. And this all do through the eyes of faith! Do these things seem to you fit to be despised, or such as to make it possible for any one to be uplifted against them?
Chrysostom, On the Priesthood Book IV
Art thou not, on the contrary, straightway translated to Heaven, and casting out every carnal thought from the soul, dost thou not with disembodied spirit and pure reason contemplate the things which are in Heaven?
Oh! what a marvel! What loveof God to man! He who sitteth on high with the Father is at that hour held in the hands of all, and gives Himself to those who are willing to embrace and grasp Him. And this all do through the eyes of faith! Do these things seem to you fit to be despised, or such as to make it possible for any one to be uplifted against them?
Chrysostom, On the Priesthood Book IV
Friday, October 27, 2006
Weedon on absolutions
Weedon has posted a nice collection of absolutions from various Lutheran agendas. Very nice. So much Gospel dripping from this post you must read it.
One sample:
The Absolution from HH (Herzog Heinrich, 1539 - ancestor of the LCMS liturgies):
The almighty God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ would be gracious and merciful to you. He wants to forgive you all your sins, and this because his dear Son Jesus Christ has suffered for them and died for them. In the name of that same Jesus Christ, because he has mandated me to do this, in the power of his words where he said: 'Whosoever sins you forgive, they are forgiven,' I say to you that all your sins are forgiven. They cannot hold you captive.
One sample:
The Absolution from HH (Herzog Heinrich, 1539 - ancestor of the LCMS liturgies):
The almighty God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ would be gracious and merciful to you. He wants to forgive you all your sins, and this because his dear Son Jesus Christ has suffered for them and died for them. In the name of that same Jesus Christ, because he has mandated me to do this, in the power of his words where he said: 'Whosoever sins you forgive, they are forgiven,' I say to you that all your sins are forgiven. They cannot hold you captive.
Necessary Roughness on Israel and Evangelicals
Necessary roughness comments on Christians going to Israel and supporting Israel out of theological conviction. It is the pre-millenial stuff. It really does blunt evangelism and the centrality of the cross which as evangelicals they try to uphold.
AS NR says "I’m all for helping out countries that don’t seem to have the desire to take us out, but to help out Israel to get some sort of theological benefit? I’m not convinced."
There is one simple solution to all this mess: the church is Israel. In Bible class have everyone repeat, "We are Israel, we are Israel." How else do the Psalms make sense for us today? That is just one small consequence of this kind of thing.
By the way, NR is in a fantasy football league with me and he is on top. 6-1. Yours truly is 4-3 in third place. Last week I did a typical fantasy football thing and panicked. Changed a bunch of people and I stunk! But back to basics this week. Watch out, Mr. NR!
This is first time I haveplayed ff. I am rather enjoying it. Talking trash is part of the fun.
AS NR says "I’m all for helping out countries that don’t seem to have the desire to take us out, but to help out Israel to get some sort of theological benefit? I’m not convinced."
There is one simple solution to all this mess: the church is Israel. In Bible class have everyone repeat, "We are Israel, we are Israel." How else do the Psalms make sense for us today? That is just one small consequence of this kind of thing.
By the way, NR is in a fantasy football league with me and he is on top. 6-1. Yours truly is 4-3 in third place. Last week I did a typical fantasy football thing and panicked. Changed a bunch of people and I stunk! But back to basics this week. Watch out, Mr. NR!
This is first time I haveplayed ff. I am rather enjoying it. Talking trash is part of the fun.
Thursday, October 26, 2006
We little fishes
Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life!
...
But we, little fishes, after the example of our Ixthus, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water.
Tertullian, On Baptism, 1
Hauerwas on Liturgy: Murdering your best friend
A little over the top but funny:
One reason why we Christians argue so much about which hymn to sing, which liturgy to follow, which way to worship is that the commandments teach us to believe that bad liturgy eventually leads to bad ethics. You begin by singing some sappy, sentimental hymn, then you pray some pointless prayer, and the next thing you know you have murdered your best friend. — Stanley Hauerwas, The Truth About God: The Ten Commandments in Christian Life, p.89
HT to alastair.adversaria
One reason why we Christians argue so much about which hymn to sing, which liturgy to follow, which way to worship is that the commandments teach us to believe that bad liturgy eventually leads to bad ethics. You begin by singing some sappy, sentimental hymn, then you pray some pointless prayer, and the next thing you know you have murdered your best friend. — Stanley Hauerwas, The Truth About God: The Ten Commandments in Christian Life, p.89
HT to alastair.adversaria
To learn of the past
"This, then, is our program: to learn of the past that we may be prepared meet the coming day; to immerse ourselves so deeply in the great life stream of the church that we may be equipped to proclaim the Word of God in a new age, and to modern men and women, and to live His life in the manner which the new century in the history of the church demands." - Bo Giertz
Thanks to Die Heilige Kirche
Thanks to Die Heilige Kirche
Wednesday, October 25, 2006
How American religion has changed in 50 years
CT has this article : How the character of religion in America has changed since the founding of Christianity Today. Here are some bullet points. Interesting. Much more here.
• The widespread and continuing appeal of religion.
• The glaring lack of knowledge about the Bible, basic doctrines, and the traditions of one's church.
• Inconsistencies of belief. For example, evangelical Christians occasionally express belief in New Age practices.
• The superficiality of faith. Many people don't know exactly what they believe, or why.
• Belief in God, but lack of trust in God.
• Continuing high regard for the church as an institution.
• Religious commitment is best described by what people say they believe and do.
• A surge of interest in spiritual matters over the last two decades.
• A growing desire for closer, more meaningful relationships with other people.
• Remarkably high figures of religious belief and practice compared to other Western nations.
• The widespread and continuing appeal of religion.
• The glaring lack of knowledge about the Bible, basic doctrines, and the traditions of one's church.
• Inconsistencies of belief. For example, evangelical Christians occasionally express belief in New Age practices.
• The superficiality of faith. Many people don't know exactly what they believe, or why.
• Belief in God, but lack of trust in God.
• Continuing high regard for the church as an institution.
• Religious commitment is best described by what people say they believe and do.
• A surge of interest in spiritual matters over the last two decades.
• A growing desire for closer, more meaningful relationships with other people.
• Remarkably high figures of religious belief and practice compared to other Western nations.
From her womb we are born
Cyprian writes on the church.
Isn't it interesting that the same pictures used of the unity of the three in one are used here to describe the unity of the church?
The Church also is one, which is spread abroad far and wide into a multitude by an increase of fruitfulness. As there are many rays of the sun, but one light; and many branches of a tree, but one strength based in its tenacious root; and since from one spring flow many streams, although the multiplicity seems diffused in the liberality of an overflowing abundance, yet the unity is still preserved in the source. Separate a ray of the sun from its body of light, its unity does not allow a division of light; break a branch from a tree,-when broken, it will not be able to bud; cut off the stream from its fountain, and that which is cut off dries up.
Thus also the Church, shone over with the light of the Lord, sheds forth her rays over the whole world, yet it is one light which is everywhere diffused, nor is the unity of the body separated. Her fruitful abundance spreads her branches over the whole world. She broadly expands her rivers, liberally flowing, yet her head is one, her source one; and she is one mother, plentiful in the results of fruitfulness:
from her womb we are born,
by her milk we are nourished,
by her spirit we are animated.
Cyprian, On the Unity of the Church
Isn't it interesting that the same pictures used of the unity of the three in one are used here to describe the unity of the church?
The Church also is one, which is spread abroad far and wide into a multitude by an increase of fruitfulness. As there are many rays of the sun, but one light; and many branches of a tree, but one strength based in its tenacious root; and since from one spring flow many streams, although the multiplicity seems diffused in the liberality of an overflowing abundance, yet the unity is still preserved in the source. Separate a ray of the sun from its body of light, its unity does not allow a division of light; break a branch from a tree,-when broken, it will not be able to bud; cut off the stream from its fountain, and that which is cut off dries up.
Thus also the Church, shone over with the light of the Lord, sheds forth her rays over the whole world, yet it is one light which is everywhere diffused, nor is the unity of the body separated. Her fruitful abundance spreads her branches over the whole world. She broadly expands her rivers, liberally flowing, yet her head is one, her source one; and she is one mother, plentiful in the results of fruitfulness:
from her womb we are born,
by her milk we are nourished,
by her spirit we are animated.
Cyprian, On the Unity of the Church
Tuesday, October 24, 2006
Issues Etc
I was on the radio yesterday speaking of James of Jerusalem.
You can listen here via mp3 and here via Windows media.
There is wealth of stuff on the Issues Etc website ... both audio files and articles. Look around. It is rewarding.
Always fun to be on. Jeff Schwarz and Todd Wilken do a great job. They make the guest sound good.
You can listen here via mp3 and here via Windows media.
There is wealth of stuff on the Issues Etc website ... both audio files and articles. Look around. It is rewarding.
Always fun to be on. Jeff Schwarz and Todd Wilken do a great job. They make the guest sound good.
Kicking, striking, filled with anger, shoving our neighbors, full of disorder
The title to this post is the description John Chrysostom gives to the distribution of the Eucharist at Antioch in the 4th century.
The paragraph below is from Robert Taft's book : Through Their Own Eyes : Liturgy as the Byzantines Saw It.
Communion was a disorderly affair that involved a fair amount of pushing and shoving, and provoked the ire of bishops like John Chrysostom, who tried in vain to impose some kind of discipline on their unruly flocks. Chrysostom's De baptismo Christi depicts the distribution of communion in Antioch as very rough and tumble:
"We don't approach for communion with awe, but kicking, striking, filled with anger, shoving our neighbors, full of disorder."
So there was good reason for the admonition of Apostolic Constitutions VIII, 13:14 to avoid all commotion at communion, approaching "in order, with respect and piety, and without disturbance."
The paragraph below is from Robert Taft's book : Through Their Own Eyes : Liturgy as the Byzantines Saw It.
Communion was a disorderly affair that involved a fair amount of pushing and shoving, and provoked the ire of bishops like John Chrysostom, who tried in vain to impose some kind of discipline on their unruly flocks. Chrysostom's De baptismo Christi depicts the distribution of communion in Antioch as very rough and tumble:
"We don't approach for communion with awe, but kicking, striking, filled with anger, shoving our neighbors, full of disorder."
So there was good reason for the admonition of Apostolic Constitutions VIII, 13:14 to avoid all commotion at communion, approaching "in order, with respect and piety, and without disturbance."
For these things are the beginnings of heretics
Cyprian here warns against pride and haughtiness on the part of clergy. In reading around in the early church one sees that in regard to the priesthood the fathers are of course concerned about true doctrine. But they are also concerned deeply about the piety of the clergy : their humility and respect for those over them.
It is a lesson we in our individualistic freedom obsessed culture do well to ponder. The disrespect and rancorous spirit that can infect congregation and lay people affects pastors as well. We must strive to be humble and respect those in authority and not to do things out of selfishness or pride. We must strive to examine oursleves "Why am I doing this? Out of my sinful motives or truly out of love for Christ and his sheep?" It is a hard question to really poke at yourself with.
For these things are the beginnings of heretics, and the origins and endeavours of evil-minded schismatics;--to please themselves, and with swelling haughtiness to despise him who is set over them. Thus they depart from the Church--thus a profane altar is set up outside--thus they rebel against the peace of Christ, and the appointment and the unity of God.
Cyprian, Epistle 64
It is a lesson we in our individualistic freedom obsessed culture do well to ponder. The disrespect and rancorous spirit that can infect congregation and lay people affects pastors as well. We must strive to be humble and respect those in authority and not to do things out of selfishness or pride. We must strive to examine oursleves "Why am I doing this? Out of my sinful motives or truly out of love for Christ and his sheep?" It is a hard question to really poke at yourself with.
For these things are the beginnings of heretics, and the origins and endeavours of evil-minded schismatics;--to please themselves, and with swelling haughtiness to despise him who is set over them. Thus they depart from the Church--thus a profane altar is set up outside--thus they rebel against the peace of Christ, and the appointment and the unity of God.
Cyprian, Epistle 64
New look for the blog
Hope you like it.
There are some images on the sidebar now. The last one is of an obscure rock and roll band. If anyone knows the group particularly the lead singer guy with the guitar wins a "approving nod" from me.
There are some images on the sidebar now. The last one is of an obscure rock and roll band. If anyone knows the group particularly the lead singer guy with the guitar wins a "approving nod" from me.
Monday, October 23, 2006
Just another country ...
I have been listening to alot of 1970's punk music. I have come to the conclusion that to best understand it you must first understand that it is just one big gigantic joke. It is not supposed to serious or good or lasting, just loud and fun. It was a reaction to the progressive art rock stuff out in the 1970's. Beyond the clothing and shocking behavior the music is a big joke. Which makes it great.
And along the way it can deliver some real zingers. For all the bluster of the Sex Pistols the most subversive devasting in all their "music" is not anything about sex or drugs or other immorality that was rightly condemned when they came out it is when they sing in "Anarchy in the UK" that
"I thought it was the U.K or just
another country"
England is just another country. That is the end of patriotism, community pride and a sense of the future of the country as a combined enterprise.
With that line all the bloated, faded dreams of empire and the greatness of the United Kingom were punctured.
I think it is a culturally significant moment circa 1977. But its just a rock song so forget it. I have broken my own philosophy about analyzing rock. Oh well.
And along the way it can deliver some real zingers. For all the bluster of the Sex Pistols the most subversive devasting in all their "music" is not anything about sex or drugs or other immorality that was rightly condemned when they came out it is when they sing in "Anarchy in the UK" that
"I thought it was the U.K or just
another country"
England is just another country. That is the end of patriotism, community pride and a sense of the future of the country as a combined enterprise.
With that line all the bloated, faded dreams of empire and the greatness of the United Kingom were punctured.
I think it is a culturally significant moment circa 1977. But its just a rock song so forget it. I have broken my own philosophy about analyzing rock. Oh well.
The first mega church?
Cornelius of Rome describes the church at Rome about 250 a.d.:
"One bishop and in it (Rome) there were forty-six presbyters, seven deacons, seven sub-deacons, forty-two acolytes, fifty-two exorcists, readers, and janitors, and over fifteen hundred widows and persons in distress" In Eusebius' Church History
What, no minister of family life and youth?
"One bishop and in it (Rome) there were forty-six presbyters, seven deacons, seven sub-deacons, forty-two acolytes, fifty-two exorcists, readers, and janitors, and over fifteen hundred widows and persons in distress" In Eusebius' Church History
What, no minister of family life and youth?
Sunday, October 22, 2006
crying and howling, groaning and sighing
Early 1800's :
Popular gospel music became a pervasive reality in Jacksonian culture because people wrested singing from churchly control. The music created a spontaneous, moving medium, capable of capturing the identity of plain people. The result was that official literary hymns had difficulty competing with lively gospel music.
An excellent illustration of this point is the invasion of revivalism and its folk music into the world of German'speaking Lutheran and Reformed churches in Pennsylvania. During the second decade of the nineteenth century, young people in these communities tired of the complicated German chorale tradition, with its solemn tunes and baroque wording. They welcomed the rousing songs and vernacular preaching of the revivalists, who came from such Methodist sects as the United Brethren in Christ, founded in 1800 by William Otterbein, the Evangelical Association, commonly called the Albright Brethren, and the Church of God (Winebrennerian). These groups developed a significant tradition of "bush-meeting spirituals," which were little more than translations into German of the American folk music of the revival.
The success of these folk traditions among Pennsylvania Germans raised the ire of the churchman Philip Schaff, who commented in 1849, "There is a stamping and bouncing, jumping and falling, crying and howling, groaning and sighing, all praying in confusion, a rude singing of the most vulgar street songs, so that it must be loathing to an educated man, and fill the serious Christian with painful emotions."
Nathan Hatch, Democratization of American Christianity, p. 153-4.
Popular gospel music became a pervasive reality in Jacksonian culture because people wrested singing from churchly control. The music created a spontaneous, moving medium, capable of capturing the identity of plain people. The result was that official literary hymns had difficulty competing with lively gospel music.
An excellent illustration of this point is the invasion of revivalism and its folk music into the world of German'speaking Lutheran and Reformed churches in Pennsylvania. During the second decade of the nineteenth century, young people in these communities tired of the complicated German chorale tradition, with its solemn tunes and baroque wording. They welcomed the rousing songs and vernacular preaching of the revivalists, who came from such Methodist sects as the United Brethren in Christ, founded in 1800 by William Otterbein, the Evangelical Association, commonly called the Albright Brethren, and the Church of God (Winebrennerian). These groups developed a significant tradition of "bush-meeting spirituals," which were little more than translations into German of the American folk music of the revival.
The success of these folk traditions among Pennsylvania Germans raised the ire of the churchman Philip Schaff, who commented in 1849, "There is a stamping and bouncing, jumping and falling, crying and howling, groaning and sighing, all praying in confusion, a rude singing of the most vulgar street songs, so that it must be loathing to an educated man, and fill the serious Christian with painful emotions."
Nathan Hatch, Democratization of American Christianity, p. 153-4.
Saturday, October 21, 2006
What do you think happens to your soul when you die?
That was the question just now on Yahoo's front page. Here is a random sampling of the answers. Depressing but not surprising. I guess this is why we catechize and most of all why we get up in the morning to preach and sing hymns and confess the faith.
I personally believe in an afterlife. If you are good on earth, your soul goes to a nice place, and if you are bad, you are punished in one way or another.
If your a christian it goes to Heaven! If your not then it goes to a not so happy place!
It parties and does cartwheels
My soul shall stay and watch over the earth before revelation occurs.
First you must have a soul to even speak of it. I am not denying it's existence, but simply playing devils advocate. How do you know you have a soul? Who's to say that anything happens when you die but rotting or being creamted?
But I will answer your question. What happens will happen and there is no way to tell. You can believe in a certain thing happening (reincarnation, heaven/hell, nothing, etc...), but it is simply impossible to actually KNOW what happens because we can't find out (you'd have to die to find out, but after you're dead, you can't even be sure that you'd know, because "knowing" may be a characteristic of the living, and you can't come back and tell everybody).
doc...as you know for most people the answer would be aligned with the faith in which they were brought up in. i, myself, have still not aligned with a final answer. to me that is the wonder of the whole thing in the first place. beside....when you do arrive at a conclusion, that means you've stopped thinking....doesn't it?
also, perhaps we should bey paying more attention to your soul while are still alive. we can all live a more positive life. now is what we hold in the palm of our hands...yesterday's done...tomorrow doesn't exist
My brother died when he was 11 yrs. old. Right before he died, he kept asking for Father. Finally my Mother said why do you need your Father, and he answered he needed help getting to the other side. I believe.
i belive you go into "heaven" sign another contract after youve spent enough time there, and go into a new life under how you wanted to define your next chart in life..There are many planets to choose to have your life on, some full of peace, and then some hell just like this one. Earth is considerd hell in most theorys, its a bad place to go, to help perfect your soul the quickest, thats why most of us chose to come here, more action. So when you commit suicude out of spite and even doings, you do go to hell, your recycled right back to this planet.
i think that there is no kind of soul in the world. that is only the way to say or point that body who is dead in words of soul
There is no soul which lives after death. How do you know there is??? After death the the body goes back to where it came from - that is to the mother nature.
In a way the person lives - but in the memories of people who were his/her near and dear ones. But thats it.
There is no such unchangable thing as 'soul' which lives through ages.
I believe the soul ascends to the next level. I also think it all depends on your beliefs. I believe the speck of energy we call the soul, goes on to new adventures.
I wonder whether you are the same Dr Deepak Chopra who wrote all those books. If you are then you know the answer. I am answering presuming that you are not the same person.
The soul after death goes to some world appropriate to its Karma on this earth and after passing some time there reincarnates in this earth another physical form. If the person has redeemed himself from all karmic bonds then the soul goes to higher worlds where it is assigned another role.
The soul moves on, and if I can control it, which I believe I can, there will be some folk here on Earth that are going to be haunted for awhile. Then, after I get all that out of my system, I might try to open a Starbuck's in Heaven.
I feel your soul lives on in what ever you touched in life. Family, work, accomplishments, volunteering, hobbies, etc. I unfortunately believe that there is no afterlife. I'd like to believe that there is, and I can understand human nature to want to believe that there is. The notion of dieing and going into a nothingness, is more frightening than anyone would like to admit. I feel that culture, history and religion have shaped our vision of what the afterlife would be, or want it to be. It gives peace of mind, minimizes the fear of death, comforts family to know their loved ones are going to a pleasant place or something more profound than what is here on earth.
It is comforting to believe in a soul - which is a good reason for doubting its existance .
Just as the body gets recycled do I believe the "soul"
gets recycled I.E it goes back to rejoin the Supreme Beong, because we are all only pseudopods of god!-
it dies with you, the only one can live after death is to through someone who continues to live, unless u have kids.... once you are dear you are dead not exisitng..... no one has ever come back cause thre is no place for them to come back from, it is like life before u were born.
I will have completed my path at a level which I find satisfactory. I will be re-united with my Spirit Guide who is my Soul mate, only he was smarter. I cannot wait to see my mother and father, although I know that they no longer are that. My mother was a great friend over many life times, and my father a great partner in a good number of them. When my father died, he came to me and entered me so that I could feel his euphoria. I will never forget that feeling, although it lasted only several seconds. I am greatly looking forward to, hopefully, experiencing something similar when I leave my body, but most importantly, I can hardly believe I should be so lucky, and never ever have to come back. I am "Rational Spirituality".
I don't know, I suppose we will all find out when we die
However I believe that your soul lives on in the memory of friends and family
However have you ever visited a place you have never visited before and felt as if you had been there before
The Bible is very clear on the subject, It states that when the body dies it goes back to its original form dust. And your soul returns back to the creator, God. End of story.........................
Well, if you are saved your soul will go to Heaven to be with the Lord. If you are lost then your soul will go to Hell until the final judgement day.
I personally believe in an afterlife. If you are good on earth, your soul goes to a nice place, and if you are bad, you are punished in one way or another.
If your a christian it goes to Heaven! If your not then it goes to a not so happy place!
It parties and does cartwheels
My soul shall stay and watch over the earth before revelation occurs.
First you must have a soul to even speak of it. I am not denying it's existence, but simply playing devils advocate. How do you know you have a soul? Who's to say that anything happens when you die but rotting or being creamted?
But I will answer your question. What happens will happen and there is no way to tell. You can believe in a certain thing happening (reincarnation, heaven/hell, nothing, etc...), but it is simply impossible to actually KNOW what happens because we can't find out (you'd have to die to find out, but after you're dead, you can't even be sure that you'd know, because "knowing" may be a characteristic of the living, and you can't come back and tell everybody).
doc...as you know for most people the answer would be aligned with the faith in which they were brought up in. i, myself, have still not aligned with a final answer. to me that is the wonder of the whole thing in the first place. beside....when you do arrive at a conclusion, that means you've stopped thinking....doesn't it?
also, perhaps we should bey paying more attention to your soul while are still alive. we can all live a more positive life. now is what we hold in the palm of our hands...yesterday's done...tomorrow doesn't exist
My brother died when he was 11 yrs. old. Right before he died, he kept asking for Father. Finally my Mother said why do you need your Father, and he answered he needed help getting to the other side. I believe.
i belive you go into "heaven" sign another contract after youve spent enough time there, and go into a new life under how you wanted to define your next chart in life..There are many planets to choose to have your life on, some full of peace, and then some hell just like this one. Earth is considerd hell in most theorys, its a bad place to go, to help perfect your soul the quickest, thats why most of us chose to come here, more action. So when you commit suicude out of spite and even doings, you do go to hell, your recycled right back to this planet.
i think that there is no kind of soul in the world. that is only the way to say or point that body who is dead in words of soul
There is no soul which lives after death. How do you know there is??? After death the the body goes back to where it came from - that is to the mother nature.
In a way the person lives - but in the memories of people who were his/her near and dear ones. But thats it.
There is no such unchangable thing as 'soul' which lives through ages.
I believe the soul ascends to the next level. I also think it all depends on your beliefs. I believe the speck of energy we call the soul, goes on to new adventures.
I wonder whether you are the same Dr Deepak Chopra who wrote all those books. If you are then you know the answer. I am answering presuming that you are not the same person.
The soul after death goes to some world appropriate to its Karma on this earth and after passing some time there reincarnates in this earth another physical form. If the person has redeemed himself from all karmic bonds then the soul goes to higher worlds where it is assigned another role.
The soul moves on, and if I can control it, which I believe I can, there will be some folk here on Earth that are going to be haunted for awhile. Then, after I get all that out of my system, I might try to open a Starbuck's in Heaven.
I feel your soul lives on in what ever you touched in life. Family, work, accomplishments, volunteering, hobbies, etc. I unfortunately believe that there is no afterlife. I'd like to believe that there is, and I can understand human nature to want to believe that there is. The notion of dieing and going into a nothingness, is more frightening than anyone would like to admit. I feel that culture, history and religion have shaped our vision of what the afterlife would be, or want it to be. It gives peace of mind, minimizes the fear of death, comforts family to know their loved ones are going to a pleasant place or something more profound than what is here on earth.
It is comforting to believe in a soul - which is a good reason for doubting its existance .
Just as the body gets recycled do I believe the "soul"
gets recycled I.E it goes back to rejoin the Supreme Beong, because we are all only pseudopods of god!-
it dies with you, the only one can live after death is to through someone who continues to live, unless u have kids.... once you are dear you are dead not exisitng..... no one has ever come back cause thre is no place for them to come back from, it is like life before u were born.
I will have completed my path at a level which I find satisfactory. I will be re-united with my Spirit Guide who is my Soul mate, only he was smarter. I cannot wait to see my mother and father, although I know that they no longer are that. My mother was a great friend over many life times, and my father a great partner in a good number of them. When my father died, he came to me and entered me so that I could feel his euphoria. I will never forget that feeling, although it lasted only several seconds. I am greatly looking forward to, hopefully, experiencing something similar when I leave my body, but most importantly, I can hardly believe I should be so lucky, and never ever have to come back. I am "Rational Spirituality".
I don't know, I suppose we will all find out when we die
However I believe that your soul lives on in the memory of friends and family
However have you ever visited a place you have never visited before and felt as if you had been there before
The Bible is very clear on the subject, It states that when the body dies it goes back to its original form dust. And your soul returns back to the creator, God. End of story.........................
Well, if you are saved your soul will go to Heaven to be with the Lord. If you are lost then your soul will go to Hell until the final judgement day.
Chastity
News flash! Village Vociearticle allows virginity as a choice in sexual expression! Hat tip to Mere Comments
Quite apart from this article, something about the chastity movement always turns me off. I think Russell Moore put his finger on it in his concise comments on this VV article over on Mere Comments. Read them here.
What he helped me to realize is that the chastity movement so often puts so much stock in personal decisions and the strength of the will of the person vowing chastity. Decision theology. My expericence of sinners, teenagers included, is that their will is so infected and their ability to make choices so twisted that any chastity emphasis must be rooted in reception of the sacraments and the gospel and prayer ... in other words in the church.
Quite apart from this article, something about the chastity movement always turns me off. I think Russell Moore put his finger on it in his concise comments on this VV article over on Mere Comments. Read them here.
What he helped me to realize is that the chastity movement so often puts so much stock in personal decisions and the strength of the will of the person vowing chastity. Decision theology. My expericence of sinners, teenagers included, is that their will is so infected and their ability to make choices so twisted that any chastity emphasis must be rooted in reception of the sacraments and the gospel and prayer ... in other words in the church.
Friday, October 20, 2006
Methodists Hire Rabbi for Spiritual Renewal
Sometimes things are are just beyond me. The Methodists want to renew themselves spiritually. Ok, I get that. I am not a Methodist but they have a strong history rooted in the Anglican church and the Wesleys and many others in the Methodist church were fine theologians who left plenty of resources to fuel a renewal. I would challenge them, of course, on many issues from a Biblical, Lutheran perspective but I would respect their desire to renew their faith and understanding.
But what I do not get is that the Methodists seeking spiritual renewal woudl hire a rabbi!!??!?!?!
Thats the headline : "Methodists Hire Rabbi for Spiritual Renewal".
Rev. Roderick J. Miller, the conference's programming director, says "Much of what is American Methodism has become more cultural than anything else. We want to go beyond that. To be a Christian means to go deeper and wider in furthering our knowledge of God and in living it out.
Ok, but why then a rabbi? Do they really despise their own Christianity that much to see it as empty of any thing of worth?
I really dont get it. I guess they see spirituality as a generic process that is independent of any real beliefs about things like Jesus, incarnation justification and little things like that.
But what I do not get is that the Methodists seeking spiritual renewal woudl hire a rabbi!!??!?!?!
Thats the headline : "Methodists Hire Rabbi for Spiritual Renewal".
Rev. Roderick J. Miller, the conference's programming director, says "Much of what is American Methodism has become more cultural than anything else. We want to go beyond that. To be a Christian means to go deeper and wider in furthering our knowledge of God and in living it out.
Ok, but why then a rabbi? Do they really despise their own Christianity that much to see it as empty of any thing of worth?
I really dont get it. I guess they see spirituality as a generic process that is independent of any real beliefs about things like Jesus, incarnation justification and little things like that.
Thursday, October 19, 2006
We quaff thy balmy juice with glee
An ode to beer.
William Hogarth's Beer Street
Beer! happy produce of our isle,
Can sinewy strength impart,
And wearied with fatigue and toil,
Can cheer each manly heart.
Labour and art upheld by thee,
Successfully advance,
We quaff thy balmy juice with glee,
And water leave to France.
Genius of Health! thy grateful tasteRivals the cup of love,
And warms each English generous breast
With liberty and love.
I found this at this blog called Logos. The previous post was there also.
The poem reminds me of Tom T. Hall's song "I like Beer" He sings "It makes me a jolly good fellow."
Or a fat grumpy middle aged one. But who wants realism?
William Hogarth's Beer Street
Beer! happy produce of our isle,
Can sinewy strength impart,
And wearied with fatigue and toil,
Can cheer each manly heart.
Labour and art upheld by thee,
Successfully advance,
We quaff thy balmy juice with glee,
And water leave to France.
Genius of Health! thy grateful tasteRivals the cup of love,
And warms each English generous breast
With liberty and love.
I found this at this blog called Logos. The previous post was there also.
The poem reminds me of Tom T. Hall's song "I like Beer" He sings "It makes me a jolly good fellow."
Or a fat grumpy middle aged one. But who wants realism?
You drew all things to Yourself
Leo the Great on the cross:
When Christ is exalted on the Cross, beloved brothers, do not let only those things which the ungodly have seen come to the sight of your mind. For to them it was said through Moses, " And your life will be hanging before your eyes and you will tremble day and night and not believe in your life." For they could think of nothing except their crime in connection with the crucified Lord, and they were afraid, not with the fear by which true faith justifies, but with that by which a bad conscience is tormented.
But our mind, which is enlightend with the spirit of truth, should receive the glory of the Cross, illuminating heaven and earth, in a heart that is pure and free. And we should see with inward vision what the Lord said when He spoke of His imminent Passion, "Now is the judgment of the world; now will the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to Myself."
O wonderful power of the Cross!
O unutterable glory of the Passion, in which is to be found the judgment-set of the Lord and the judgment of the world and the power of the Crucified!
For You drew all things to Yourself, Lord; when You stretched out Your hands all day to an unbelieving and contradicting people, the whole world knew that this gesture signified its obligation to confess Your majesty.
You drew all things to Yourself, Lord, when in horror of the crime of the Jews all the elements of nature expressed their common feeling: when the lights of heaven were darkened and day turned to night and the earth shook with strange tremors and all creatures refused their services to ungodly men.
You drew all things to Yourself, Lord, when the veil of the Temple was torn and the Holy of holies taken away from the unworthy priests that the figure might be changed to the reality, the prophecy to the manifestation, and the law into the Gospel.
Posted here
When Christ is exalted on the Cross, beloved brothers, do not let only those things which the ungodly have seen come to the sight of your mind. For to them it was said through Moses, " And your life will be hanging before your eyes and you will tremble day and night and not believe in your life." For they could think of nothing except their crime in connection with the crucified Lord, and they were afraid, not with the fear by which true faith justifies, but with that by which a bad conscience is tormented.
But our mind, which is enlightend with the spirit of truth, should receive the glory of the Cross, illuminating heaven and earth, in a heart that is pure and free. And we should see with inward vision what the Lord said when He spoke of His imminent Passion, "Now is the judgment of the world; now will the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to Myself."
O wonderful power of the Cross!
O unutterable glory of the Passion, in which is to be found the judgment-set of the Lord and the judgment of the world and the power of the Crucified!
For You drew all things to Yourself, Lord; when You stretched out Your hands all day to an unbelieving and contradicting people, the whole world knew that this gesture signified its obligation to confess Your majesty.
You drew all things to Yourself, Lord, when in horror of the crime of the Jews all the elements of nature expressed their common feeling: when the lights of heaven were darkened and day turned to night and the earth shook with strange tremors and all creatures refused their services to ungodly men.
You drew all things to Yourself, Lord, when the veil of the Temple was torn and the Holy of holies taken away from the unworthy priests that the figure might be changed to the reality, the prophecy to the manifestation, and the law into the Gospel.
Posted here
Wednesday, October 18, 2006
The World Series is still bigger than the Super Bowl
The World Series is still bigger than the Super Bowl.
I know more people watch the Super bowl ...
(btw, its on at 6 or 630 p.m , hmmmm, when will baseball stop shrinking their future audience by broadcasting games so late at night that kids cannot watch!!!!)
... but emotionally and in a deeper way I think the being in the World series means more to a city. Detroit fans are going nuts and rightly so. St. Louis fans will also if they win. (the Mets, I don't know, NYC is somewaht unique) Something about the WS, its history and roots and the way the game is played means more than the media circus that is the Super Bowl. I love pro football and watch it more than baseball in the regular season but the Series is special.
Lets just hope Detroit doesn't burn down thier own city if they win. (couldn't resist).
I know more people watch the Super bowl ...
(btw, its on at 6 or 630 p.m , hmmmm, when will baseball stop shrinking their future audience by broadcasting games so late at night that kids cannot watch!!!!)
... but emotionally and in a deeper way I think the being in the World series means more to a city. Detroit fans are going nuts and rightly so. St. Louis fans will also if they win. (the Mets, I don't know, NYC is somewaht unique) Something about the WS, its history and roots and the way the game is played means more than the media circus that is the Super Bowl. I love pro football and watch it more than baseball in the regular season but the Series is special.
Lets just hope Detroit doesn't burn down thier own city if they win. (couldn't resist).
Stuff is the issue
Someone (Petersen?) in the blog world recently asked what the biggest issue facing the church was. My vote is for stuff. Stuff as in material thigns, creation.
As in ...
human bodies, the Incarnation, sacraments, the ability of material things to carry spiritual blessings, reading the Scriptures in a Hebrew first article way, Gnosticism, et al.
Stuff.
As in ...
human bodies, the Incarnation, sacraments, the ability of material things to carry spiritual blessings, reading the Scriptures in a Hebrew first article way, Gnosticism, et al.
Stuff.
Episcopalians and the sacraments
Here an Episcopalian does some fine stumbling toward responsible authentic church sacramental practice.
Tuesday, October 17, 2006
What bride ever chose a crucified man as her husband ?
This Sunday in the three year series of readings is Mark 10: 2-12 on marriage and divorce.
Here is a marvelous piece from Jacob of Sarug on Christ and the church. Jacob was a Syrian from the mid to late 5th century.
Moses appeared and with deft hand sketched a picture of bridegroom and bride but immediately drew a veil over it. In his book he wrote that a man should leave father and mother so as to be joined to his wife, that the two might in very truth become one. The prophet Moses spoke of man and woman in this way in order to foretell Christ and his church.
With a prophet's penetrating gaze he contemplated Christ becoming one with the church through the mystery of water. He saw Christ even from the virgin's womb drawing the church to himself, and the church in the water of baptism drawing Christ to herself. Bridegroom and bride were thus wholly united in a mystical manner, which is why Moses wrote that the two should become one ...
Wives are not united to their husbands as closely as the church is to the Son of God. What husband but our Lord ever died for his wife, and what bride ever chose a crucified man as her husband? Who ever gave his blood as a gift to his wife except the one who died on the cross and sealed the marriage bond with his wounds? Who was ever seen lying dead at his own wedding banquet with his wife at his side seeking to console herself by embracing him? At what other celebration, at what other feast is the bridegroom's body distributed to the guests in the form of bread? Death separates wives from their husbands, but in this case it is death that unites the bride to her beloved.
Jacob of Sarug, Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, NT. Vol. 2., 135-136
Here is a marvelous piece from Jacob of Sarug on Christ and the church. Jacob was a Syrian from the mid to late 5th century.
Moses appeared and with deft hand sketched a picture of bridegroom and bride but immediately drew a veil over it. In his book he wrote that a man should leave father and mother so as to be joined to his wife, that the two might in very truth become one. The prophet Moses spoke of man and woman in this way in order to foretell Christ and his church.
With a prophet's penetrating gaze he contemplated Christ becoming one with the church through the mystery of water. He saw Christ even from the virgin's womb drawing the church to himself, and the church in the water of baptism drawing Christ to herself. Bridegroom and bride were thus wholly united in a mystical manner, which is why Moses wrote that the two should become one ...
Wives are not united to their husbands as closely as the church is to the Son of God. What husband but our Lord ever died for his wife, and what bride ever chose a crucified man as her husband? Who ever gave his blood as a gift to his wife except the one who died on the cross and sealed the marriage bond with his wounds? Who was ever seen lying dead at his own wedding banquet with his wife at his side seeking to console herself by embracing him? At what other celebration, at what other feast is the bridegroom's body distributed to the guests in the form of bread? Death separates wives from their husbands, but in this case it is death that unites the bride to her beloved.
Jacob of Sarug, Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, NT. Vol. 2., 135-136
American Anglicanism
If you have ever been confused trying to keep up with what is going on in the American thing called the Episcopal church, there is help. So many groups, so many alliances.
Pontifications has posted a nice guide to American Anglicanism.
Pontifications has posted a nice guide to American Anglicanism.
Monday, October 16, 2006
Baptism in the news
1. Here is a care of pastoral minsitry: priest kicks out Mom from baptism on account of miniskirt.
Intolerable legalism or heroic defense of morality?
2. This is a different kind of baptism story. At First Baptist Church, Springdale, Ark. they have a Disney-designed firetruck baptistry. When a child is baptized, a cannon shoots out confetti and sirens go off. The worship area includes a light show, video games, music videos and a bubble machine.
Not making it up. The op-ed writer condemns it from a Baptist perspective.
3. Even in a numbers obsessed culture this article goes overboard.
After nearly a month and a half of seasonal afternoon rains, the sun broke through the clouds to shine brightly at Fort Lauderdale Beach in time for 350 to be baptized in the strong surf Sept. 17.
The beach baptism is the second for Flamingo Road Church in Fort Lauderdale which in a similar manner last year baptized 260 in the mild waters at the famous white-sand beach. The church led the state in baptisms in 2005 after baptizing 534, a 97 percent increase over 271 baptized in 2004 ... Partying on the beach prior to the record-breaking commitment, over 1,000 congregants from multiple campuses of Flamingo Road Church ... The growing church has campuses in Cooper City and Doral, and Hispanic, Brazilian and Hungarian ministries. In total, their average attendance is about 4,700 in worship, about 1,500 more than the same time last year.
Ok, we get it, you are SO successful!
4. Beer and baptism, now that's a headline. Check out this picture:
Seems the good vicar is hanging out at the pub to discuss baptizing the kiddies. Here's to you !
Intolerable legalism or heroic defense of morality?
2. This is a different kind of baptism story. At First Baptist Church, Springdale, Ark. they have a Disney-designed firetruck baptistry. When a child is baptized, a cannon shoots out confetti and sirens go off. The worship area includes a light show, video games, music videos and a bubble machine.
Not making it up. The op-ed writer condemns it from a Baptist perspective.
3. Even in a numbers obsessed culture this article goes overboard.
After nearly a month and a half of seasonal afternoon rains, the sun broke through the clouds to shine brightly at Fort Lauderdale Beach in time for 350 to be baptized in the strong surf Sept. 17.
The beach baptism is the second for Flamingo Road Church in Fort Lauderdale which in a similar manner last year baptized 260 in the mild waters at the famous white-sand beach. The church led the state in baptisms in 2005 after baptizing 534, a 97 percent increase over 271 baptized in 2004 ... Partying on the beach prior to the record-breaking commitment, over 1,000 congregants from multiple campuses of Flamingo Road Church ... The growing church has campuses in Cooper City and Doral, and Hispanic, Brazilian and Hungarian ministries. In total, their average attendance is about 4,700 in worship, about 1,500 more than the same time last year.
Ok, we get it, you are SO successful!
4. Beer and baptism, now that's a headline. Check out this picture:
Seems the good vicar is hanging out at the pub to discuss baptizing the kiddies. Here's to you !
Saturday, October 14, 2006
The small delights of a parish pastor
There are small delights of a parish pastor. They will not change the world, or be shouted about on TV or youtube. No one will notice them much beyond the little corner of the world I occupy. Yet they are gifts of a gracious God.
... The 95 year old who struggles and fights each week to come to service, to sing the hymns, to receive the gospel.
... The wide eyed 5 year old who runs down the hall after Sunday school with a picture of Christ on the cross and says to her mother, “That’s Jesus. “
... The few people in the parish who stubbornly makes the sign of the cross in the midst of a sea of those who do not thus gladdening the heart of their pastor.
... The glad toil and unflagging dedication of so many to this congregation. To them it is nothing other than God’s house and they are totally dedicated to its well being.
There are of course many more. These are just the ones that occurred to me this day.
... The 95 year old who struggles and fights each week to come to service, to sing the hymns, to receive the gospel.
... The wide eyed 5 year old who runs down the hall after Sunday school with a picture of Christ on the cross and says to her mother, “That’s Jesus. “
... The few people in the parish who stubbornly makes the sign of the cross in the midst of a sea of those who do not thus gladdening the heart of their pastor.
... The glad toil and unflagging dedication of so many to this congregation. To them it is nothing other than God’s house and they are totally dedicated to its well being.
There are of course many more. These are just the ones that occurred to me this day.
Friday, October 13, 2006
A Reformed take on the Supper
Peter Leithart is a well spoken and erudite Reformed theologian. He has many good things to say.
It is very apparent, however, in this passage on the Eucharist how different are the Reformed and Lutheran approaches to the Supper. (To be sure, Leithart has much more to say about the Eucharist than only this.) Note the emphasis here on obedience and what we do. Absent is what we Lutherans see as the main thing in the Supper: Christ's gift of himself and his forgiving presence ... in other words : the Gospel.
That is relevant to our celebration of the Supper in a couple of ways. We come here to a table that celebrates the death of Jesus, His supreme act of obedience to His Father. When we eat the body of Jesus and drink His blood, we are committing ourselves to walk as He walked. Each week we renew the pledge we made in baptism that we are the Lord's and that we will live as His disciples.
But this meal is also an act of obedience. "Do this," Jesus said, and each time we do it, we are keeping one of the New Commandments of God. Because this meal is an act of obedience, it is one of the moments on the path to assurance and to perfection, to maturity. As we eat and drink in obedience to the Lord’s command, we are growing up in all ways into Him, who is the head, even Christ, who causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love. As we do what Jesus commanded at this table, we reach for the maturity to which God calls us.
I lost the link! His blog is here.
It is very apparent, however, in this passage on the Eucharist how different are the Reformed and Lutheran approaches to the Supper. (To be sure, Leithart has much more to say about the Eucharist than only this.) Note the emphasis here on obedience and what we do. Absent is what we Lutherans see as the main thing in the Supper: Christ's gift of himself and his forgiving presence ... in other words : the Gospel.
That is relevant to our celebration of the Supper in a couple of ways. We come here to a table that celebrates the death of Jesus, His supreme act of obedience to His Father. When we eat the body of Jesus and drink His blood, we are committing ourselves to walk as He walked. Each week we renew the pledge we made in baptism that we are the Lord's and that we will live as His disciples.
But this meal is also an act of obedience. "Do this," Jesus said, and each time we do it, we are keeping one of the New Commandments of God. Because this meal is an act of obedience, it is one of the moments on the path to assurance and to perfection, to maturity. As we eat and drink in obedience to the Lord’s command, we are growing up in all ways into Him, who is the head, even Christ, who causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love. As we do what Jesus commanded at this table, we reach for the maturity to which God calls us.
I lost the link! His blog is here.
Pentecostal and Charismatic influence
Thursday, October 12, 2006
This about sums up my blog...
A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought.
- Dorothy L. Sayers
- Dorothy L. Sayers
Infant baptism
As far as blog discussions go, this one is quite tame but its focus on infant baptism is interesting.
I teach my confirmands that the reasons given for rejecting infant baptism are usually:
1. Infants cannot have faith
2. Infants do not have sin
3. Baptism must be by immersion to be Biblical
4. Baptism is something we do for God to show him our faithfulness
There are more fundamental reasons like a modernistic distrust of ritual and matter in things of salvation but these are rarely acknowledged and operate under the surface.
But the post above confirms all of those arguments.
To be clear, baptism ...
... creates the faith which recieves the gift.
... is a divine work of God and gives forgiveness and new bith to infants who the Bible states are born in sin.
... moreover baptism is deeply resonant with the God of the Bible who appears and works and uses his creation to manifest himself.
... it is also rooted deeply in a God of grace who does all for the salvation of his people. He is the creatio ex nihilo God. WE see that in infnat baptism most clearly.
... finally baptism is the paradigm for all of our Christian life and faith. We are always and forever babies at the font, relying solely and only on the gracious God of the cross.
I teach my confirmands that the reasons given for rejecting infant baptism are usually:
1. Infants cannot have faith
2. Infants do not have sin
3. Baptism must be by immersion to be Biblical
4. Baptism is something we do for God to show him our faithfulness
There are more fundamental reasons like a modernistic distrust of ritual and matter in things of salvation but these are rarely acknowledged and operate under the surface.
But the post above confirms all of those arguments.
To be clear, baptism ...
... creates the faith which recieves the gift.
... is a divine work of God and gives forgiveness and new bith to infants who the Bible states are born in sin.
... moreover baptism is deeply resonant with the God of the Bible who appears and works and uses his creation to manifest himself.
... it is also rooted deeply in a God of grace who does all for the salvation of his people. He is the creatio ex nihilo God. WE see that in infnat baptism most clearly.
... finally baptism is the paradigm for all of our Christian life and faith. We are always and forever babies at the font, relying solely and only on the gracious God of the cross.
Theologians are fools
A nice bit from Franzmann circa 1957. Posted here.
A theologian is a fool; it is imperative that he be one: "Let no man deceive himself," St. Paul says: "if any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool that he may be wise" (1 Cor. 3:18). We like to deceive ourselves well enough and to think that we have a choice between being fools and something else, after all. We all respond to the flattery of book lists headed Philosophy and Theology or Religion and Philosophy. We like to dream of some sort of connection, mild but still connubial, with philosophy. Luther's "Harlot Reason" tempts us to prove our intellectual virility and to seek for an "intellectually respectable" theology. We like to think of theology as "queen of the sciences" and of ourselves as very respectable little intellectual princelets in her train, with a Christian philosophy to place alongside all other philosophies. But it is not so; theology is not queen, not among the sciences, and we are not princes. We are more like the short-pants boy who hovers on the fringe of the long pants set; tolerated, but never ever really accepted. We should not deceive ourselves.
St. Paul shows us why we dare not deceive ourselves. To do so would be to take the heart out of theology, to take the Cross of Christ, the kernel, out of our kerygma [kerygma means proclamation/preaching]. "Fool" therefore goes all up and down the line of theologians, from the little children in Christ up to St. Paul himself; he is speaking here of what Christ sent him, the Apostle, to proclaim, and it is foolishness.
The Gospel of the Cross of Christ is foolishness, and its practitioners are fools. The Gospel is God's last word to mankind; but it is somehow less impressive than His first word was: "After that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." God's earlier attestation of Himself, the cosmic sketch of His power and His Godhead drawn in the works of His creation, outtops impressively this little fragment of a history of a few men clustered about a Man who taught in Galilee and died in Judea. God's Law is more impressive than His Gospel, intellectually. "Do this, and thou shalt live" is a more demonstrable proposition than "Only believe, and thou shalt be saved." God once came with wisdom; He comes with folly, with the Cross.
A theologian is a fool; it is imperative that he be one: "Let no man deceive himself," St. Paul says: "if any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool that he may be wise" (1 Cor. 3:18). We like to deceive ourselves well enough and to think that we have a choice between being fools and something else, after all. We all respond to the flattery of book lists headed Philosophy and Theology or Religion and Philosophy. We like to dream of some sort of connection, mild but still connubial, with philosophy. Luther's "Harlot Reason" tempts us to prove our intellectual virility and to seek for an "intellectually respectable" theology. We like to think of theology as "queen of the sciences" and of ourselves as very respectable little intellectual princelets in her train, with a Christian philosophy to place alongside all other philosophies. But it is not so; theology is not queen, not among the sciences, and we are not princes. We are more like the short-pants boy who hovers on the fringe of the long pants set; tolerated, but never ever really accepted. We should not deceive ourselves.
St. Paul shows us why we dare not deceive ourselves. To do so would be to take the heart out of theology, to take the Cross of Christ, the kernel, out of our kerygma [kerygma means proclamation/preaching]. "Fool" therefore goes all up and down the line of theologians, from the little children in Christ up to St. Paul himself; he is speaking here of what Christ sent him, the Apostle, to proclaim, and it is foolishness.
The Gospel of the Cross of Christ is foolishness, and its practitioners are fools. The Gospel is God's last word to mankind; but it is somehow less impressive than His first word was: "After that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." God's earlier attestation of Himself, the cosmic sketch of His power and His Godhead drawn in the works of His creation, outtops impressively this little fragment of a history of a few men clustered about a Man who taught in Galilee and died in Judea. God's Law is more impressive than His Gospel, intellectually. "Do this, and thou shalt live" is a more demonstrable proposition than "Only believe, and thou shalt be saved." God once came with wisdom; He comes with folly, with the Cross.
Wednesday, October 11, 2006
The consolations of the Lord
I tried repeating between gritted teeth Job's line of "blessed be the Name of the Lord" and I got zip comfort, no consolation from it. But that's faith for you: we seek the "Lord of consolations, not the consolations of the Lord." - Therese Z of "Exutet" quoted here.
Tried and true, ancient
An Episcopoalian priest has some words worth reading about the appeal of the traditional to the young:
A sample:
This, frankly, would be a tragic mistake sense younger generations, generally, are attracted to and prefer the older, Elizabethan-style language (thee's and thou's, etc). I've experience this dynamic over and over again. To them, this is the language of the Church - that which is tried and true, ancient, not swayed by whim and trend. In like manner, so many young people are attracted to traditional Church architecture rather than the striped-down "seeker church" model. The tragedy would be that those in control would push through their agenda of change despite what demographic information is telling us about those who are making up the future of the Church.
A sample:
This, frankly, would be a tragic mistake sense younger generations, generally, are attracted to and prefer the older, Elizabethan-style language (thee's and thou's, etc). I've experience this dynamic over and over again. To them, this is the language of the Church - that which is tried and true, ancient, not swayed by whim and trend. In like manner, so many young people are attracted to traditional Church architecture rather than the striped-down "seeker church" model. The tragedy would be that those in control would push through their agenda of change despite what demographic information is telling us about those who are making up the future of the Church.
Chirpy vicars
The Times over in England reports on Terry White, a famous Anglican, who is abandoning chirpy, TV host-like, vicars for Quaker services. Hmmmm, from one frying pan into another, I suspect.
But his comments here are well taken :
Modern services are filled with instructions on when to stand and sit and what page to turn to in which book, often interspersed with chirpy comments from priests worried that their congregations might be getting bored.
Waite said: “In so many circumstances the church has tried to emulate popular entertainment . . . the clergyman is trying to act as a television host. It may well have attractions for those who have never been in a church but it does not help those who want to worship God in a quiet way.”
But his comments here are well taken :
Modern services are filled with instructions on when to stand and sit and what page to turn to in which book, often interspersed with chirpy comments from priests worried that their congregations might be getting bored.
Waite said: “In so many circumstances the church has tried to emulate popular entertainment . . . the clergyman is trying to act as a television host. It may well have attractions for those who have never been in a church but it does not help those who want to worship God in a quiet way.”
Tuesday, October 10, 2006
Clodhoppers listening to hog grunting
Here is a Baptist critiquing the theological emptiness of many Baptist hymns and using Luther to do it.
Here are some Luther quotes he posts:
A person who gives this some thought and yet does not regard it [music] as a marvelous creation of God must be a clodhopper indeed and does not deserve to be called a human being; he should be permitted to hear nothing but the braying of asses and the grunting of hogs.
Like Moses in his song, we may now boast that Christ is our praise and song and say with St. Paul, that we should know nothing to sing or say, save Jesus Christ our Savior.
P.S. Don't you love the title to this post!
Here are some Luther quotes he posts:
A person who gives this some thought and yet does not regard it [music] as a marvelous creation of God must be a clodhopper indeed and does not deserve to be called a human being; he should be permitted to hear nothing but the braying of asses and the grunting of hogs.
Like Moses in his song, we may now boast that Christ is our praise and song and say with St. Paul, that we should know nothing to sing or say, save Jesus Christ our Savior.
P.S. Don't you love the title to this post!
Monday, October 09, 2006
Bill and Ted's Ecclesial Adventure
Its not deep theology or anything but worth a chuckle if you remember the movie.
Bill and Ted's Ecclesial Adventure
Bill and Ted's Ecclesial Adventure
RC priest taking on Islam
Here is a RC priest taking on Islam: Father Zakaria Boutros.
“Islam cannot stand in front of intellectual questions and no one can understand because of contradictions in Koran, contradictions in Hadith, contradictions and false doctrines. So they don't want anybody to ask and to learn. 'This is Islam, you have to accept it as it is' lest you should be killed,” Zakaria said.
Father Zakaria doesn't stop at challenging the teachings of Islam. He also questions the Prophet Mohammed himself, who Zakaria says had his mind set on wordly pursuits.
“He said that his concerns are three things: women, perfume, and food,” he said. “Where is the kingdom of God? Where is the glory of God? Where is the salvation? Where is love? Where is the mission of a true Prophet of God?”
“Islam cannot stand in front of intellectual questions and no one can understand because of contradictions in Koran, contradictions in Hadith, contradictions and false doctrines. So they don't want anybody to ask and to learn. 'This is Islam, you have to accept it as it is' lest you should be killed,” Zakaria said.
Father Zakaria doesn't stop at challenging the teachings of Islam. He also questions the Prophet Mohammed himself, who Zakaria says had his mind set on wordly pursuits.
“He said that his concerns are three things: women, perfume, and food,” he said. “Where is the kingdom of God? Where is the glory of God? Where is the salvation? Where is love? Where is the mission of a true Prophet of God?”
Saturday, October 07, 2006
The Cardinal is lol
The Roman arch-bishop of Boston, a cardinal no less, is reaching out to the younger set by writing in this style:
"We stopped at what I call an 'Italian Howard Johnson's' which is sort a combination of Wal-Mart and Papa Ginos all wrapped up in one ... lol ...We had some very good pizza and sort of tepid Coca-Cola, because ice is not a big feature of life in Europe."
You know, if I had an arch-bishop I am not sure I would want him talking like this. It destroys the whole reason to have an arch-bishop. I mean, act like an arch-bishop. It is similiar to a doctor who says, "Dude, you have a growth thingie in your gut and we'll have to, you know, get rid of it."
What is the point in having an exalted office if you are going to act like a 16 year old, internet, geez-whiz kid? Reaching out to the youger set is a very dicey matter. One thing young people can smell a mile off is people trying to reach out to them. Can you spell f-a-k-e?
"We stopped at what I call an 'Italian Howard Johnson's' which is sort a combination of Wal-Mart and Papa Ginos all wrapped up in one ... lol ...We had some very good pizza and sort of tepid Coca-Cola, because ice is not a big feature of life in Europe."
You know, if I had an arch-bishop I am not sure I would want him talking like this. It destroys the whole reason to have an arch-bishop. I mean, act like an arch-bishop. It is similiar to a doctor who says, "Dude, you have a growth thingie in your gut and we'll have to, you know, get rid of it."
What is the point in having an exalted office if you are going to act like a 16 year old, internet, geez-whiz kid? Reaching out to the youger set is a very dicey matter. One thing young people can smell a mile off is people trying to reach out to them. Can you spell f-a-k-e?
Friday, October 06, 2006
When the Swallows Come Back
First Things magazine has posted this article from the latest issue: When the Swallows Come Back to Capistrano: Catholic Culture in America by Joseph Bottum.
This is an insightful look at Catholic culture in America which distances itself from the right extreme and the left extreme in search of an authetic living church culture. A good look at Catholicism from the inside most of which is new to me. But also many insights common to any church culture. Worth the read.
Here are some poignant words on the difference between a chosen tradition and an inherited one. They can never be the same. A chosen tradition is so American and so discontinuous with the history of the church yet the reality in which we live with blessings and curses all its own. Note the "the quick irritated impatience". Ah, does not this afflict also Lutherans?
This quick, irritated impatience seems common in the emerging Catholic culture. You find it in the parishioners of the Polish Dominicans working at Columbia University, and in the conservatives gathered around the political theorist Robert George at Princeton. For that matter, it is present among the graduate students at such places as Notre Dame and Boston College, and among the younger theology professors around the country. The public figures of the new culture—the Catholic lawyers, magazine writers, and think-tank analysts—have it in spades: an intolerance, an exasperation, with everything that preoccupied an entire generation of American Catholics.
For the development of a new Catholicism, this doesn’t look the most-promising start. Rich local cultures may produce great works, but few people in the United States have that kind of cultural wealth anymore. Certainly not many Catholics. The number of Americans who grew up in a profoundly Catholic setting is smaller than it ever has been before—which creates a problem for a new culture. If Catholicism is something elected rather than received, can Catholics achieve what earlier cultures did?
Their children, perhaps, will come from a thick-enough world that they can write the kind of strong Catholic novels, make the kind of strong Catholic art, prior ages knew. But in the meantime, a rebellion against rebellion doesn’t escape the problems of rebellion, and a chosen tradition is never quite the same as an inherited one.
This is an insightful look at Catholic culture in America which distances itself from the right extreme and the left extreme in search of an authetic living church culture. A good look at Catholicism from the inside most of which is new to me. But also many insights common to any church culture. Worth the read.
Here are some poignant words on the difference between a chosen tradition and an inherited one. They can never be the same. A chosen tradition is so American and so discontinuous with the history of the church yet the reality in which we live with blessings and curses all its own. Note the "the quick irritated impatience". Ah, does not this afflict also Lutherans?
This quick, irritated impatience seems common in the emerging Catholic culture. You find it in the parishioners of the Polish Dominicans working at Columbia University, and in the conservatives gathered around the political theorist Robert George at Princeton. For that matter, it is present among the graduate students at such places as Notre Dame and Boston College, and among the younger theology professors around the country. The public figures of the new culture—the Catholic lawyers, magazine writers, and think-tank analysts—have it in spades: an intolerance, an exasperation, with everything that preoccupied an entire generation of American Catholics.
For the development of a new Catholicism, this doesn’t look the most-promising start. Rich local cultures may produce great works, but few people in the United States have that kind of cultural wealth anymore. Certainly not many Catholics. The number of Americans who grew up in a profoundly Catholic setting is smaller than it ever has been before—which creates a problem for a new culture. If Catholicism is something elected rather than received, can Catholics achieve what earlier cultures did?
Their children, perhaps, will come from a thick-enough world that they can write the kind of strong Catholic novels, make the kind of strong Catholic art, prior ages knew. But in the meantime, a rebellion against rebellion doesn’t escape the problems of rebellion, and a chosen tradition is never quite the same as an inherited one.
Arian view of salvation
What follows is a selection from a book I am reading. R.P.C. Hanson's The Search for the Christian Doctrine of God. I find it a compelling book. Here he summarizes the case he makes that at the heart of Arianism was not a sterile logic but a real soteriology based on an emphasis on the Incarnation , that God must suffer in Christ for redemption to be real. Of course, Arianism sacrifces Christ's real human soul and the full divinity of the Son to acheive this.
Hanson has spent considerable pages sketching out the evidence; what is here is the conlusion. Provocative stuff but very interesting.
We can now perceive the rationale of Arianism. At the heart of the Arian Gospel was
a God who suffered. Their elaborate theology of the relation of the Son to the Father which so much preoccupied their opponents was devised in order to find a way of envisaging a Christian doctrine of God which would make it possible to be faithful to the Biblical witness to a God who suffers. This was to be achieved by conceiving of a lesser God as reduced divinity who would be ontologically capable, as the High God was not, of enduring human experiences, including suffering and death … it was an example of God suffering as man suffers, or at least what man suffers, in order to redeem man.
Arian writers are fully convinced of the genuine humanity of the body which the Logos assumed … they insist that what this Word assumed when he became incarnate was a soma (body) without a psyche (soul). … Because Arians were determined that the Son of God did genuinely, seriously, undergo human experiences, within the limits of their doctrine they understood the scandal of the Cross much better than the pro Nicenes. Neither Athanasius nor Hilary nor the Cappadocians could ever have envisaged the self-emptying of the Son as Asterius did, nor have written etiam sui ips ius impassibilitatem praeposuit salutem humanam (he even placed human salvation before his own immunity from suffering). Here Arian thought achieved an important insight into the witness of the New Testament denied to the pro-Nicenes of the fourth century, who unanimously shied away from and endeavoured to explain away the scandal of the Cross.
We must give the Arians credit for this insight. But of course they only achieved their doctrine of the Incarnation at the expense of an account of the Christian doctrine of God which in effect taught two unequal gods, a High God incapable of human experiences, and a lesser God who, so to speak, did hls dirty work for him. Most of us will conclude that this was too high a price to pay.
Hanson, p. 121-122.
Hanson has spent considerable pages sketching out the evidence; what is here is the conlusion. Provocative stuff but very interesting.
We can now perceive the rationale of Arianism. At the heart of the Arian Gospel was
a God who suffered. Their elaborate theology of the relation of the Son to the Father which so much preoccupied their opponents was devised in order to find a way of envisaging a Christian doctrine of God which would make it possible to be faithful to the Biblical witness to a God who suffers. This was to be achieved by conceiving of a lesser God as reduced divinity who would be ontologically capable, as the High God was not, of enduring human experiences, including suffering and death … it was an example of God suffering as man suffers, or at least what man suffers, in order to redeem man.
Arian writers are fully convinced of the genuine humanity of the body which the Logos assumed … they insist that what this Word assumed when he became incarnate was a soma (body) without a psyche (soul). … Because Arians were determined that the Son of God did genuinely, seriously, undergo human experiences, within the limits of their doctrine they understood the scandal of the Cross much better than the pro Nicenes. Neither Athanasius nor Hilary nor the Cappadocians could ever have envisaged the self-emptying of the Son as Asterius did, nor have written etiam sui ips ius impassibilitatem praeposuit salutem humanam (he even placed human salvation before his own immunity from suffering). Here Arian thought achieved an important insight into the witness of the New Testament denied to the pro-Nicenes of the fourth century, who unanimously shied away from and endeavoured to explain away the scandal of the Cross.
We must give the Arians credit for this insight. But of course they only achieved their doctrine of the Incarnation at the expense of an account of the Christian doctrine of God which in effect taught two unequal gods, a High God incapable of human experiences, and a lesser God who, so to speak, did hls dirty work for him. Most of us will conclude that this was too high a price to pay.
Hanson, p. 121-122.
Thursday, October 05, 2006
In Defense of Infant Baptism
Faith is a miraculous gift of God worked in the heart by the Holy Spirit without human cooperation. If God can bring a stubborn, unbelieving adult to faith through the preaching of the Gospel, would anyone foolishly suggest that he is unable to work the same miracle in the heart of a passive infant through the vehicle of Baptism?
From an article by Don Matzat.
From an article by Don Matzat.
Wednesday, October 04, 2006
Sam Harris: Whacking yourself on the head with a cast-iron skillet
Anybody out there hear of him or read him? He is the latest media darling atheist. Isn't it so shocking ... someone doesn't believe in God ... what a story!
I heard him a bit on NPR but I turned it quickly, he drove me crazy. Not his atheism, his stupidity.
Here is an interesting article on him in the LA Times.
Best quote:
Naturally, there are critics (and not just religious ones) who consider Harris an alarmist or just plain wrong. The New York Sun's Adam Kirsch wrote that the book "belongs not in the 21st century, but the 17th." Alan Cochrum of the Fort Worth (Texas) Telegram wrote that "the reward for spending $16.95 and an hour of time to read this book is the same as for whacking yourself on the head with a cast-iron skillet: It feels so good when you stop."
I heard him a bit on NPR but I turned it quickly, he drove me crazy. Not his atheism, his stupidity.
Here is an interesting article on him in the LA Times.
Best quote:
Naturally, there are critics (and not just religious ones) who consider Harris an alarmist or just plain wrong. The New York Sun's Adam Kirsch wrote that the book "belongs not in the 21st century, but the 17th." Alan Cochrum of the Fort Worth (Texas) Telegram wrote that "the reward for spending $16.95 and an hour of time to read this book is the same as for whacking yourself on the head with a cast-iron skillet: It feels so good when you stop."
Socratic Stammtisch
A friend of mine has a new blog.
Pastor John Dreyer offers Socratic Stammtisch. Pastor Dreyer is an admissions counselor at Concordia Theological Seminary in Fort Wayne, Indiana and a PHD student there in missions. I have known Pastor Dreyer since college in the mid 80's.
What is a stammtisch? I am sure it is dreadfully important but I haven't a clue.
Pastor John Dreyer offers Socratic Stammtisch. Pastor Dreyer is an admissions counselor at Concordia Theological Seminary in Fort Wayne, Indiana and a PHD student there in missions. I have known Pastor Dreyer since college in the mid 80's.
What is a stammtisch? I am sure it is dreadfully important but I haven't a clue.
Monday, October 02, 2006
Good weekend
My congregation just finished up a 90th anniversary celebration. It was a deeply humbling experience.
We took as a theme for the weekend to honor the pastors who had served here in the past. We invited everyone we could find. We had widows and pastors and families.
As we thanked God for their service it was dramatically apparent how unimportant I as an inividual really am. Pastors can get such tunnel vision, focused on the next meeting or sermon or issue. But in the end you as an individual just aren't that importnat. You are not the center of the world. The church is, the incarante God is, office is.
These servants we remembered before God, many advanced in age, many already resting from their labors, toiled and laid foundations and now I do the same. The thing about foundations is that they are covered up, unable to be seen. The builidng, the the beauty, the structure reaches into the heavens, invisible.
Anyway, it was a good weekend.
We took as a theme for the weekend to honor the pastors who had served here in the past. We invited everyone we could find. We had widows and pastors and families.
As we thanked God for their service it was dramatically apparent how unimportant I as an inividual really am. Pastors can get such tunnel vision, focused on the next meeting or sermon or issue. But in the end you as an individual just aren't that importnat. You are not the center of the world. The church is, the incarante God is, office is.
These servants we remembered before God, many advanced in age, many already resting from their labors, toiled and laid foundations and now I do the same. The thing about foundations is that they are covered up, unable to be seen. The builidng, the the beauty, the structure reaches into the heavens, invisible.
Anyway, it was a good weekend.
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